Gabrielle Clowdus & Being A Good Neighbor to Our Homeless Siblings

This week on 20 Minute Takes, Nikki chats with Dr. Gabrielle Clowdus of Settled, an organization that addresses long-term homelessness through research-based holistic and communal approaches. In this conversation, they talk about why traditional interventions for homelessness often fail, and how local church communities are uniquely positioned to address the challenges of homelessness and to be good neighbors to their homeless siblings.

Dr. Gabrielle Clowdus is the CEO and Founder of Settled. You can learn more about their research and Sacred Settlement projects here.

You can find Settled on YouTube and Instagram.

20 Minute Takes is a production of Christians for Social Action
Host and Producer: Nikki Toyama-Szeto 
Edited by: David de Leon
Music: Andre Henry

Transcript

[00:00:00] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Hello, this is Nikki Toyama-Szeto. I'm the executive director of Christians for Social Action and your host for today's episode of 20 Minute Takes. Today, we talk with Dr. Gabrielle Clowdus. 

She's the CEO and founder of Settled, an organization based in Minnesota that is looking at creative ways that the church can wrap around and be good neighbors to those who are experiencing chronic homelessness. 

Join us for today's conversation. 

Gabrielle Clowdus, thank you so much for joining us on 20 Minute Takes.

[00:00:48] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah, man, I'm so happy to be here.

[00:00:50] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Before we get into the conversation about your work with Settled and the work with folks who are chronically experiencing homelessness, can you tell me a little bit about how you got interested in this area? I understand that you spent some time doing some academic research.

Yeah, absolutely. My family and I moved to Minnesota from Southern California about a decade ago. I had a bachelor's and master's in architecture. I was coming here to get a PhD in housing. I was studying international housing, international poverty. About a year into my program, I sense the Lord saying, Gabrielle, it's time to look at poverty in your own backyard.

And I really struggled with that. I like, you know, maybe many believers felt like there's a deserving poor. Or I, hope that maybe isn't the truth, but it certainly was for me. And and it just sensed that it was an invitation from the Lord to to just deepen my inquiry around homelessness in America.

hmm. Mm hmm. And so you were responding to something of a prompt, something of an invitation from God to take a look at what was happening in your backyard or in your environment.

[00:02:00] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah, absolutely. And that wasn't challenging. Our family moved to downtown St. Paul, so it was just simply opening up my eyes. I rode the Green Line train to and from Minneapolis every day, and so it was just recognizing, you know, this is some people's home. They're sleeping on, on this train. And then just getting to know people on the streets by name, by face, by story, by drug of choice, by birthday.

And then also inviting them into our lives for family meals and games and walks. And ultimately realizing that sure, if you're poor in America, it looks different than international poverty. You know, we, we have government, we have government assistance, we have social services we have the food drives and the clothe, clothe, clothing drives, but ultimately what I've, I really saw was just just an extreme displacement of people and sense of just no belonging. You know, this is a group of people that pushed to the outskirts of society. And society has no imagination for a proper place to welcome them in. And so really just sensing like this is the most despised, unloved and unwanted of our society. And they've experienced a profound and catastrophic loss of family and community. You know, who, who's going to take on that role? You know, government's playing their role. Helping professionals are playing their role, but really it's the role of the church to enter in and and augment that role of family and community for our, our most vulnerable neighbors who have lost that.

[00:03:33] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Wow. That's amazing. How long did you do that sort of open hearted, open eyes, taking a look? How long was that journey for you?

[00:03:44] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah, the first probably three years was just research 

[00:03:48] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Wow. Mm 

[00:03:49] Gabrielle Clowdus: and a lot of street outreach going on the streets every week. We partnered with kind of a local organization, just went out with them every week and sometimes we would hike 45 minutes into the woods to serve one person. And at first it felt so inefficient. It's like how are we ever going to respond to homelessness if we're taking 45 minutes to go serve one person? And yet, there was also that like quiet whisper of the Lord, like, "Isn't that what I did for you? Didn't, didn't I chase after you when you were still my enemy and I came after you with radical love?" Like, that's what we get to do for our neighbors that are, of course, hiding away, right? Society has said: "You're no good." And there's a strong sense of worthlessness among people that are, that are stuck in street homelessness. And so yeah, just a lot of years of building relationships with people

[00:04:46] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Oh, I, I, I'm so impressed with kind of the slow walk and the open heartedness that you did that. What are some of the most common interventions for folks who are experiencing homelessness or don't have like a secure living arrangement?

[00:05:00] Gabrielle Clowdus: Kind of conventionally?

[00:05:02] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah, conventionally. And a little bit of, what have you noticed are the, the problems or the flat sides with those very common approaches?

[00:05:09] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah. So, so kind of as a society, we think about homelessness and immediately we think, okay, we need emergency shelter and we need transitional housing and we, we hardly ever jump over to, "Oh, someone needs a permanent home." And so we just kind of keep people in a, a sense of a state of survival, a state of really just walking the edge of a cliff. And right before they fall over, we just kind of pull them back up onto that edge. But ultimately people need to be pulled as far away from that edge as possible so that they can get a sense of security and belonging and safety and love and assurance that they're not going to fall off.

And that doesn't, that doesn't happen. And if we think about relationships in the short, short term. If we think about coming into someone's life and fixing them, it only happens through through relationship and relationship can only meet, move at the speed of trust. And so trust takes a long time, especially for our neighbors that have experienced a lifetime of you know, of broken promises, you know, if, if mom began drugging you at the age of two and pimping you out, you have some trust issues and those aren't just going to go away quickly with some transitional housing model, we really need to start looking at our neighbors with awe and delight and you know, just, Wow. Like you've, you've survived so much trauma. You have survived on the streets. You have an entrepreneurial spirit. What is it like for, for me to enter into your life and gain just deeper understanding and empathy and compassion. And what is it like if we enter into relationship that both gives and receives on both ends?

[00:07:03] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah, no, that's amazing. Can you tell me a little bit about the Sacred Settlements intervention, or I'm not sure if you would describe it as an intervention, but the approach of Sacred Settlements? What are some of the ingredients that are a part of that? And yeah, can you just paint a picture for us of what, some of what it is that you're doing at Settled?

[00:07:21] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah, absolutely. So we, we know from folks that are many of our folks on the streets struggle with drug addiction, mental health, chronic pain lack of job opportunities kind of all of that. So what is it like to enter into someone's life and, and help rebuild a holistic life? It means all the things that you and I need.

We need neighbors to lean on. We need a permanent home to dwell in. We need land and a place to cultivate and call our own. We need friends to support us, and we need work that's purposeful and meaningful. So essentially, a sacred settlement is an intentional, permanent, and interdependent tiny home community alongside the local church We really believe that the local church is that missing piece.

If, if we know that someone's on the streets for 5, 10, 20 years, not simply because of a lack of housing alone or a lack of social services alone, but a profound and catastrophic loss of life. family, then ultimately the response needs to include family. And so that's, that missing piece is the local church wrapping around, around people.

When we, when we talk to folks on the streets and we talk about drug use, oftentimes you're going to hear you know, they're not chasing a wild party. They're chasing the feeling of a warm hug. So who's going to be that warm hug? It's not going to be the government. It's not going to be the paid professionals.

And it certainly can be the church. So a sacred settlement is using a portion of the church land and building. It's land and building that already exists. It's already paid off or being paid off. And it's oftentimes underutilized. I want to think about your own church and what does that building look like on a Tuesday afternoon?

It's pretty. Probably not, you know, fully well used. Certainly, even if there are activities throughout the week, there can be more. And so how do we say to the outcasts of our society, come, come to the banquet table where we can eat together. That is the most dignified way of responding to our homeless neighbors.

[00:09:35] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Mm hmm. Oh, I love that. So this looking at the sort of multi generational, highly relational what's built in as part of God's family as expressed in the church and using that as a wraparound in addition to the provision of a tiny house, which is that concrete solution that we've seen a lot of like government interventions have.

That's fantastic. And, and I think that really resonates for me. Cause as you're talking about sort of a holistic solution, like really treating the person as a full person. I've also heard you describe this as something of a journey to find the sacred way together. Can you tell me a little bit of.

What that looks like for this community, this church community that is wrapping around someone in, in the community that's a little bit more vulnerable. What does that look like lived out on a day to day life?

[00:10:27] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah. I love answering that question. Thank you so much for asking it. You know, several years into this, the Lord impressed upon my heart the promise that he makes in Isaiah 58. He says, "When you invite the homeless poor into your home, your light will shine like noonday and your healing will come swiftly." When I think about the American church, I, I see a lot of sickness.

I see I'll just a lot of you know, declining attendance maybe comfort, convenience, apathy even. And his promise to us is that when we invite the homeless poor in, into the house of God, into relationship, into reciprocal relationship. Our light will shine like noonday. That means that local church is going to be a city on a hill.

It's going to be attracting more people into it because they're in awe of what that local church is doing. And then the local church's healing will come swiftly. Each congregation, you know, has both super powers and super blind spots. And so what is it like, you know, God has a gift for us when we do this.

He wants to heal the church. He, he wants to give us greater revelation of who he is. When I look at the example of our first two sacred settlements, one is at a small conservative Church of the Nazarene, under resourced, highly diverse small group of people, and you know, the revelation that they needed was the God of abundance.

And they have received that. God is abundant. The way that that whole sacred settlement was developed and funded was so abundant. It was just There was no fundraising at all. It was very easy. The renovation to the building and the land happened with God. The, the donations of two women. And so just God revealed to that congregation, like, it's easy for me to provide, I'm the God of abundance.

When I look at the second sacred settlement, it's a first ring suburb, white, affluent, older congregation. They have you know, land that they've been holding onto for about 60 years. They have an endowment and, you know, they, people weren't coming into the church. It's just slowly declining and they needed to experience the God of that's trustworthy, they needed a revelation that, yeah, you know what, actually we can use the land.

We can spend our money. You are trustworthy God. And when we do these things, our, our light will shine like noon day. People will come be attracted to the warmth of the light here. And, and we're seeing that happening. You know, young families are coming into this mainline Lutheran church. And, and.

It's been on a steady decline for about 30 years. And so the healing that came swiftly looked really different for this small conservative under resourced Nazarene church than it did for this white, affluent, liberal Lutheran church. And yet that's the kindness of our God. Like his kindness is that I want your healing to come swiftly.

I want you to give a give you a greater revelation of who I am. And it happens by us inviting the poor in, the homeless poor in to the home.

[00:14:01] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Mm hmm. Oh, I love that. That's, that's amazing. You've talked about how the tiny house on the church land, the utilization of the church building, the wraparound of relationships. Can you tell me a little bit about the role of the intentional neighbor?

[00:14:17] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah, absolutely. The intentional neighbor is the distinct difference in this community model than what you're going to see in tiny homes kind of across the nation. Or even housing programs across the nation responding to homelessness. Oftentimes we do one of two things. We either concentrate poverty, we build a housing development and we say, this is good enough for you.

No resourced person would actually want to live there. ... can understand it as a pool full of people that are drowning. It's just simply a lot less health than, than maybe a thriving community can look like, or we give someone a housing voucher and we sort of hide them away in market rate housing next to neighbors that didn't ask to live next to them and cannot relate with their background.

Both solutions just create further and further stereotypes of who the homeless are and what kind of neighbor they're going to be. And they don't really invite people into intentional relationship. So, in a sacred settlement, a third of the homes are set aside for what we do call intentional neighbors.

And that is essentially someone that is resourced, that has never experienced homelessness themselves, that's coming from a relatively healthy, happy background and feels a calling to live among the poor, to be a good neighbor, to create margin in their life, to invite people into family meals and walks and games.

And to just be, to have a faithful presence there. Because ultimately, that's what's been lost, and so we need to restore that. Our intentional neighbors live in the same type of housing, you know, they live in, in tiny homes themselves, they pay the same rent as our neighbors coming off the street, they wait on the same property management service calls.

So it's, it's a great equalization. It's like, we're here together, and we're both on our healing journey, and we have something to learn from one another. And we're going to, we're going to live and Life alongside one another.

[00:16:18] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Oh, I love that. That's, I think I appreciate the way that you've observed and noticed. Then found ways for the local church to participate in some of the gaps that are really needed for like a full flourishing for the whole community. I think it's, it's a really amazing picture.

Now I understand like, even as you all have these sacred settlements and the work that you're doing through settled has been very high touch and very local that some of the work is actually brought you into places where you've had to speak into policy and you've had to engage with laws in Minnesota. Can you tell us a little bit about what were some of the legal hurdles that you had? And and what are some of the questions and conversations that you've been trying to provoke to give more spaciousness to solutions like this? 

[00:17:04] Gabrielle Clowdus: So the number one reason that affordable housing doesn't get built is a not in my backyard sentiment. People think, Oh, great idea. Sure. Absolutely. But just not, not near my house, not near my kids, not near my property values. And there's just a strong sense of NIMBY opposition. I would love to say that it's outside the church, but it's, you know, I find it in the church too. And yeah, but I, I don't fault anyone for that. There's a lot of there's just so many stereotypes and inaccurate narratives around homelessness that we've just built so many fear fences around it. So we stumbled, literally stumbled on a federal, federal land use law.

I mean, we were trying to be creative about how can we overcome. Not in my backyard opposition. We know that every affordable housing developer before us has, has struggled with this and it adds a lot of lead time to your development and adds a lot of cost. So we were just being very creative, I and just thinking through, like, well, what if we, you know, just being silly, like, what if we were to float the whole, the whole community, and it was just in the air, you know, who

[00:18:17] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: (laughter) 

[00:18:17] Gabrielle Clowdus: Or what if we were to put this on water? What if these are just like, you know, floating tiny home boats? And, you know, God is so gracious to also just let us stumble into this federal land use law, and essentially it's a really strong land use law that says that the faith community can use their land in conjunction with their mission.

So if they can show that their mission is to care for the poor, and the way that they would like to care for the poor is by creating an intentional, permanent tiny home community on their land, Then that NIMBY opposition falls flat. The local zoning restrictive land use regulations fall flat. And so just began testing that and ultimately we were able to change city law in St. Paul to open our first Sacred Settlement. Then on the heels of opening that, we were able to change city law in a first ring suburb. And then ultimately we were able to change state law. And so that state law went into effect as of January of this year. And it, it essentially says or recognizes the right for every faith community to plant a sacred settlement.

It says, yes, you as a faith community have the right to do this. And what that does is help you overcome local zoning and zoning is you... it's nearly impossible to to kind of overcome that without the protection of this land use. And so as we grow beyond Minnesota, I mean, we have about half a dozen communities across the nation that we're journeying with as they are discerning a Sacred Settlement.

You know, we will lean on that federal land use law. Again, our first two sacred settlements were planted without our state law, so we were able to test the strength of it. Now, it didn't require a lawsuit or, or anything like that. It just required a lot of education and awareness to both the neighbors that surround that church and also to the local elected official officials and regulators Most cities don't know about this law and most churches don't know about it.

And so bringing that conversation about allows for the church to recognize, Oh, we can do something so powerful with our land that nobody else can do. Like it is set apart. It is sacred. And could this be God giving us permission and protection to care for our homeless neighbors in a really deep and authentic way.

[00:20:53] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: I love that. I think that's amazing. I also see it as an opportunity for the church to recognize Christian faithfulness looks like. Generosity and goodness towards towards their neighbors and recognizing that as part of the core mission of the church. So I, I, I heard that as you were sort of saying, if this is part of the core mission of, of that faith community, you know, then it is consistent.

And so I think that's, that's just amazing and inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us here on 20 minute takes and for the work that you're doing through the Settled organization. We look forward to hearing more from your community, but thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:21:34] Gabrielle Clowdus: Yeah, I appreciate being here. Thank you.

[00:21:42] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: 20 Minute Takes is a production of Christians for Social Action.

We're edited by David de Leon. I'm your host, Nikki Toyama-Szeto, and the music is done by Andre Henry. You can find us on the web at ChristiansforSocialAction. org. Give us five stars. Write a review. And share about the podcast with your friends.