Leroy Barber & Neighborhood Economics

This week on 20 Minute Takes, we talk with Leroy Barber about his work as the Executive Director of Neighborhood Economics. Listen in as he and Nikki discuss how Christians can show up in their neighborhoods for good, the importance of convening economic resources with practitioners, and how to integrate economics as a communal practice. 

You can find Leroy:

Website: https://neighborhoodeconomics.org/
Instagram: @leroybarber
Twitter: @leroybarber
His most recent book: Embrace: God’s Radical Shalom for a Divided World 

20 Minute Takes is a production of Christians for Social Action
Host and Producer: Nikki Toyama-Szeto 
Edited by: Wiloza Media
Music: Andre Henry

Transcript

[00:00:00] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Hello, this is Nikki Toyama -Szeto. I'm the executive director of Christians for Social Action and your host for today's episode of 20 Minute Takes. Today, we talk with Leroy Barber. He's the executive director of Neighborhood Economics, an organization that looks at the connection between racial justice and local economic systems.

They pull together different groups. to take a holistic view at the good of the neighborhood. Leroy shares with us some of his insights, having been a pastor, having worked with Christian nonprofits, and now as executive director of Neighborhood Economics. And he challenges us to see the different ways that Christians can show up in the neighborhood for good.

Join us on this episode.

Well, Leroy Barber, thank you so much for taking time to join us today on 20 Minute Takes. 

[00:01:15] Leroy Barber: Oh, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me. 

[00:01:17] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Well, since you started your leadership role over at Neighborhood Economics, I have been dying to have you here on the podcast, because it sounds like the work that you're doing, the people that you are gathering to answer some pretty challenging questions, but I think in pretty creative ways around racial justice around economic systems about around proximity.

I'm just so fascinated. Can you tell us a little bit about what it is that you all are trying to do through neighborhood economics? 

[00:01:46] Leroy Barber: Well, I think the big picture is looking at history and seeing the lack of resource that have been connected to local communities, especially communities of color, poor communities, where the economic viability has been.

It's been missing and for many reasons, right? And so looking at that history and going, well, we'd like to step in, right? And connect people to bring resource to places that historically have not received those resources and, and those being economic, right? And so those leaning into things like housing and the things, looking at redlining, looking at some of these historic things and going.

Well, how do we do that differently and who's doing it differently? And how do we bring, you know, high finance world together with practitioners, right? Foundations and impact investors and philanthropists with, you know, community developers and people working on the ground and mom and pop shops and entrepreneurs locally.

And, and, and that synergy, yeah, 

[00:02:55] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: The folks on the ground who kind of really know what's going on, who are probably some of the best leaders on what the next step should be. 

[00:03:02] Leroy Barber: Right. Everybody expects steps to be in their neighborhoods and in their communities. 

[00:03:07] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. Can you give us an example of, of what it means in a particular city of like, "Oh, actually this, this part of the history is still living on today."... this is the impact of that today. 

[00:03:19] Leroy Barber: Well, I know, so Neighborhood Economics started in 2014, and they had had a really good relationship with a few cities and Cincinnati being one where they've had a convening and event and brought together folks. And so after those meetings, in Cincinnati, particularly a group of form that began to train and help support entrepreneurs, local entrepreneurs to start businesses enhance the businesses in their communities, things like that. And so that's kind of the meat behind of the gatherings. And so Cincinnati, Indianapolis the Baltimore area have been, we've been in Jackson, Mississippi. So we necessarily don't have all the funds, right?

We're not a funder. But we're a convener. We bring the folks together. 

[00:04:12] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: And you pull together a pretty interesting group of people. Folks in a room that aren't often in the same room. Can you tell us a little bit about who is in the room? And why do you think that conversation is important? 

[00:04:22] Leroy Barber: So this is, this is a really interesting at an event in Jackson.

We had someone from the New York Fed, David Erickson come and speak at an event with local pastors and in the South, Black, you know, it's still kind of highly Black and White kind of settings, right? And so speaking to a room, half of which were local Black pastors and leaders and talking about his work at the Fed, right?

Normally, you don't have that, right? You don't have someone from, from the Fed, you know, setting interest rates and all that they do with a local pastor who's trying to figure out how to put more housing in their, in their neighborhood, in their communities. 

[00:05:08] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Right. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:05:10] Leroy Barber: And so things like that happen at, at our, at our convening.

[00:05:14] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: That's that's amazing. I love that because I feel like the folks on the ground understand the personal and are engaged and affected by the systemic. And then I sometimes feel like these investors, philanthropists, they think about the systemic, but they don't necessarily have that touch point on the ground.

So it just seems like it's a great conversation. 

[00:05:33] Leroy Barber: Yeah. 

[00:05:34] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: I think of you as a person who loves the city. Can you tell us a little bit about what it is that you see God doing? In cities and through cities. What inspires you or what is it that kind of drives you to be this neighborhood person? 

[00:05:49] Leroy Barber: Hmm. Well, I think the my history is very local growing up in Philadelphia literally, it's a block right? It's not even like wide neighborhood all the time It's it's it's like people on your block and yeah, and and that block very communal, very supportive, from block parties to jobs, to street cleanups, to and, and, and everything in between, you know, and and so that, that is kind of a part of my shaping.

And I think it's the shaping in general of, Communities of color, black communities that had to do, had to be communal, right? Yes. We had to think about how to do it together in order for it to happen. Yeah. And I think that's somewhere lost, but somewhere coming back and gaining steam. And a lot of people are talking about proximity and place, right?

And local economies and, and those kinds of things cause that's, that's where the support mechanisms are going to come from strongest in my opinion. 

[00:06:55] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Oh, totally. Totally. What are some of the ways that you've seen the church be a really good neighbor? You wrote a book on the beloved community and, and being a good neighbor as kind of this Christian calling.

What are some of the ways that you've seen the church be a good neighbor in the communities that they're part of? And what are some of the ways that you've seen the church or Christians have their good intentions, maybe go not as they intended. 

[00:07:22] Leroy Barber: So I'll, I'll start with the good, I think the, the churches that recognize that they are a part of the public square, right. That they are a part of a economic system, a social system, right. That is for everyone there. Right? And churches that recognize that see themselves as part of that ecosystem and not the ecosystem, right? And so, so somewhere in our theological space, right? The church has got an attitude of like, we are the answer to the entire world, right?

And so if people don't come through here or through our ways or through our, our beliefs, then they, you know, they, they, they're missing out. Right. And, and what that leads to in practice is that churches many times don't make good partners if you think you are, if you are always the main partner, right?

[00:08:27] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Wow. Yeah. 

[00:08:28] Leroy Barber: And that, and that, that's problematic. 

[00:08:30] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: But that posture of recognizing, "Oh, actually I'm only a part, of this ecosystem that is the public square." 

[00:08:37] Leroy Barber: Exactly. Right. Yeah. And we exist for all human beings. Right. And and our, our work and our message and our lives practically and theologically should fit that posture.

And that makes for really good neighbors. 

[00:08:54] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah, no, that's great. Now, what would you say to folks? Cause I hear this a lot where folks are like, well, Jesus said, you know, "Give to Caesar what Caesar's", you know, that sort of this way that the church or Christians sort of think about their economics somewhat separately from their faith journey.

I think it might tie, you know, sort of personal practices of it. What is it that you think that Christians need to understand? About the invitation that God might have or or how Christian should respond like if do folks ever say "Oh, isn't that sort of a political thing? Like that's not a church thing?" 

[00:09:31] Leroy Barber: Well, well, here's the thing.

I don't know anything more communal than then for me my my faith walk and my journey as As a person of faith as a believer as a pastor any of those things all called for me deeply living into community whether it's my prayer life, whether it's going to church, whether it's my kids that youth group, whether it's, you know, all of these things were communal endeavor.

[00:10:01] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yes. 

[00:10:02] Leroy Barber: The only thing that that is not is my money. Right? So I type what I want. I don't tell people what I make for sure. Right? I, I keep all of this, all of this economic stuff private. And I think that, that, that becomes problematic. The most communal thing I might do is put money into the offering plate.

[00:10:31] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Ah, interesting. Right. 

[00:10:33] Leroy Barber: Right. But my money is my business. And I, I am not sure that fits. The entirety of our faith walk 

[00:10:43] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: That carve out isn't in there? It's not a Christian carve out? You don't think?

[00:10:48] Leroy Barber: Right, right, right. This place is just me, myself, my, my family, my investments, my whatever, right leave that alone. And I, and I, and I think that is that, that, that has to affect other, other, our other thoughts about money. Right? And one of the ways, this may be more than you want, but like, the other ways is how we set up giving. So if I'm a philanthropist or I'm a foundational world or any of those things, I give according to what I want to see and do.

[00:11:27] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: That's true. Right. 

[00:11:28] Leroy Barber: Right. What I think is good or what the organization has to meet my 10 things for me to give money to it, as opposed to they might know better. What works in their community and how, how, how to collectively use that resource? But it's dictated from an individual perspective, this foundation or this philanthropist or this, right.

Like, and I think that's problematic. And like, we're not. It's not congruent, 

[00:12:00] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Right. What I hear, even as you're describing it, I'm hearing power is retained by the, by the giver, the philanthropist, the person with the money to sort of, and I see that, I see that dynamic all the time, right? Folks on the ground trying to make their their work, their programs to kind of go into pretzels in order to make it fit these priorities to kind of like, you know, what's the thing that's going to turn that on?

What do you imagine? Is a new way or what do you imagine is a way that does have more congruence with what how you understand gospel community? 

[00:12:39] Leroy Barber: Yeah, one of the things that we've been working on in neighborhood economics is What we call a catechet fund and it's basically a fund where? Anyone can buy into And everyone gets a voice, right?

So if you put $25 into this fund, you get to say and, or vote on a, however that process goes locally for the projects that, that, get funded from that space, right? So, so local folks get voiced in that in, in determining what happens with funding. And I think those types of things are things that'll help you know, and solidify and bring a little more life and community to the work, right? Because, because local folks living it have an equal voice as everyone else. And so we got to get back to that and I, and people have played with that political or this socialism or any of these types of things. I, I, I, I just think it's, it's, it's faithful following of, of Creator, right? Like I think, I think many faith communities can. Can begin to live into that. 

[00:14:01] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah. Well, I love, as you're describing that, I'm seeing what you're saying about how we normally think of our money and our economics as a private individualized thing. But even that fund that you're describing, it does, it incentivizes like the discernment of the community together, right?

Everyone gets this voice, this vote. And, and it, it also kind of upsets some of the capitalistic competitiveness. Is that something that, is it an idea that's incubating or is it something that you all have, have launched? 

[00:14:32] Leroy Barber: It's, it's an idea. It's, it's both, right? It's, it's very aspirational, but it's also started on a small scale.

And so we want to build, we want to build that out as. Here is a, here is, here is a way after these convenings that we have enabled, enabled economics for, for that work to carry on as we had brought people together. 

[00:14:54] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah. I love what you're doing because it's both personal and systemic, but it's very, very place based.

Can you tell us a little bit about why pulling everyone together around a very specific place as opposed to like an issue is the approach that you all chose? 

[00:15:13] Leroy Barber: Well, I think, you know, and you alluded to my history. I just think people thrive when they're known. I think people thrive when they're known. I think accountability is deeper when people are next to one another.

I think socially, when our kids play in the same little league that, that there's a different connection point. And I think those connection points are important, right? From the little league to our school needs a new set of violins, right? Like all of it, all of that is pushed by, by place and proximity.

[00:15:57] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Right. So then what happens in like this digital age where I feel like people are becoming a little placeless? 

[00:16:04] Leroy Barber: Yeah, I think the digital age isn't helping in one respect, but I think in another it offers local places, ways to kind of get involved in a bigger world, right? 

[00:16:19] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Ah, that's true. 

[00:16:20] Leroy Barber: And so if a local community that doesn't have access and resource can use technology and and the digital world to learn, to find out about who else around the world is doing this, how we solve problems together.

So I think it can be used both ways, but you still, you know, that basic kind of, we live in the same place. We go to the same schools. We work close together. All of those things are, are, are important. 

[00:16:48] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yes. No, I love that. I love that. Leroy, what do you hope that Christians understand about the connection or also the things that aren't connected related to racial justice and economics, especially in the U S context?

[00:17:04] Leroy Barber: I think obviously when we talk economics, there's no way around a racial justice piece or conversation, right? That if you don't have those types of conversations. You're going to be hard pressed to get to the core of our problems, right? But I think that can be done in creative ways. I think we can figure out a way to talk about race and justice and history.

My core is that I think where there are relational connection points are places to start, right? So because it's going to, it takes a trust. Right? To go, okay, like, we need to talk about why this particular place in our city or this particular neighborhood with these particular people struggle more than across town.

Right? And we got to have that. If you don't have that conversation, you're never going to solve the problem. Right? And so, and those conversations are based in race. Right? 

[00:18:13] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yes. As a Christian, how does that inform the work you do and how you do it? 

[00:18:19] Leroy Barber: I think I want to be a person of faith that lives and works and thinks about all of humanity at all the time, right?

That I don't want to think about my church. I don't want to think about like In a vacuum, people who just claim Jesus. I don't want to like while I am a Christian, I am a follower of Jesus. I want that to be a part of the bigger, bigger work and a bigger, bigger human experience in life. Yes. Yeah. And so I want to put my belief in Jesus in the public square as a person who is helping and helping everybody flourish. 

[00:19:06] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: I love that. 

[00:19:07] Leroy Barber: I think I'm coming to that yeah, I think I am there. I'm not coming to it, but. It's hard to explain. I think 

[00:19:13] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: No, no, it's, I think it's really clear. I think it's, it's pretty compelling to, it's not just to think of the flourishing of your own church or your own particular community, but in a way you're kind of carrying your faith for the flourishing of the neighborhood.

And I don't know, that to me really resonates with what I understand the gospel to be. Leroy Barber, thank you so much for joining us today on this episode of 20 Minute Takes. 

[00:19:38] Leroy Barber: Nikki, thanks for having me. Appreciate it so much.

20 Minute Takes is a production of Christians for Social Action. Our music was created by Andre Henry. And this episode was mixed and engineered by Wiloza Media. If you liked this episode, spread the word by subscribing, reviewing, or sharing. I'm your host, Nikki Toyama-Szeto if you want to find out more about our work, visit the website at christiansforsocialaction. org.